Save Fail

[C-Bear]

Hello,

I'm new here and i'm C-Bear aus Holland.

My German is far from perfect so if you all forgive me i would like to post this experience in English. It entails my experience today with a shop called save-express and the way it tries to handle their costumers. Here is my account.

I placed an order with save express. Besides some diapers also some adult toys. Unfortunately they didnt understand what it means to run a shop with save express.

I ordered a vibrator. I ordered the same one before and i knew exactly which one i wanted. Luckily i was able to find it in the store and i ordered it with my next shipment of diapers. Unfortunately when i opened the box today i found a completely different kind f dildo. This one was 33cm long and 6 cm in diameter. Way to big for me to do anything with it besides hunting for seals.

This wasn't the one i ordered and i was afraid i must have made a typo somewhere on the order form. I did order a "riese" but not the XXL. When i checked the ordernumbers everything was right. I checked them on the site and i noticed the picture didnt resemble what i got. They sent me the wrong one and didn't even bother to change the ordernumber.

This prompted me to sent an e-mail to save:

Dear sir / madam,

I recently ordered several items from save express and I am happy with the shipment apart from 1 item. It appears I was given the wrong vibrator. I ordered the http://www.saveexpress.de/de/waesche...r-riese?c=2495 and I believe based on the picture and discription I was sent the http://www.saveexpress.de/de/waesche...brator?c=2495.

Although I don't mind being given a more expensive vibrator instead, I am afraid I can't use the one I was sent.

My "rekeningnr." is XXXXXX.
My "Bestelnr" is XXXXXX.

Could you please advise me what to do next?

Cheers,

XX XX

------------------------------------

The response from save express came swift (credit is where credit is due their response was within minutes):

Dear XX ,

thank you for the question , sorry that you have a wrong or replacement product at your parcel with the delivery . The producer sent us near the same after we have order and the XXL Vibrator XXL NO.550981 can´t not deliver . I hope you can use this near the same product or we take it back and refund the amount .
Regards, Oliver
Your Save Express Team


I'm amazed. So because save got a wrong dildo they sent the wrong one to the costumer? If the costumer then has to pay for extra shipping because save willfully sent a wrong dildo to cover up the fact they don;t have the right one? OK, i now have paid 18 euro for a 26 euro dildo. But i can't use it at all. And if i want to sort it out i have to pay! What is going on with save express? Are they completely gone bonkers? On the order-form it said they delivered the item i wanted but they sent something else on purpose in the hope i wouldn't figure it out. And when i did notice it they say i have to pay if i wanted to solve this. All in all a dreadful blunder by save express and i wonder if this is the way they usually handle stuff.


Thank you for reading this and i will welcome any reply.

lots of hugs
C-Bear

[Pimpernuckel]

This has nothing to do with going bonkers. It's normal business practice as stipulated by the laws and regulations - if a product is not available or defective, the dealer/ vendor is obligated to give you a comparable better product for the same price. Apparently the size difference would be an issue, but you will have a hard time to prove that it's actually unusable. The only real failure here is that they could have asked before shipping anything, but they are fully within their rights to ask you to pay for a return shipment otherwise. I know it's going to be costly or you, but simply send it back and ask if they throw in a 10 Euro voucher for your next order. It's always best to settle such things with as little noise as possible.

Pimpernuckel

[C-Bear]

i have a better way. I paid with paypal. Please check what i am allowed to do according to paypal before guessing

[Wölfchen96]

Hi C-Bear AUS Holland xDD

[C-Bear]

hi wolfchen

[BoP]

I havw to ask you, to stay with the original
topic. Otherwhise i have to close this thread.

The area for introduction and welcome is the "Vorstellforum"
a little bit upwards in the overwiew.

friendly greetings BoP
Moderator from WB-Community

[C-Bear]

My apologies.

The item, they say they can't deliver, is still in the shop. I can only assume it is in the shop so when people order it, save express can move their unwanted products unto the unsuspecting buyer.

[robino]

Oh, that's really bad service


Not legal advice (I'm not a lawyer) but as far as I know, the shop has to pay for your postage in this case.

The legal term you are looking for is probably "Sachmangel". They are allowed to make up for their error if you want a refund based on the fact that an Item has a "Sachmangel", but you won't have to pay postage (not for sending it back or for getting the ordered dildo). A "Sachmangel" is best described as something being wrong with the item (wrong item, wrong color, broken).

If you were to make use of your "Rückgaberecht", you would have to pay for postage yourself, so you don't want that.

Don't just send it back, though, but ask them what they want to do to solve the Sachmangel. They could (for example) just let you keep the vibrator and send you the right one if they were to make a bigger loss through postage. They could also let you keep the old one and return part of your money (usually only if it's impossible to get the item for them or it would be way too uneconomical for them and they aren't at fault, but let's not get into details here. Sometimes it's good to know that one can't just drop a binding contract by sending back your money, though)

Check out http://www.e-recht24.de/forum/14303-...lieferung.html with translate.google.com if you want to know some details.

Maybe the laws are different if you are ordering from outside of Germany, but I wouldn't know why. And you can apparently get your money back through paypal, although it might be better to play nice (at first)

[C-Bear]

I have been in contact with save since then. I really want the product i ordered because i had it before. But they don't seem to be remotely inclined in sending it. Even though i paid for it. Any solution they offer consist of me sending the wrong product they sent to me back to them and getting my money back afterwards. Since my latest reply they say to include the bill of postage inside the parcel so i will get that back as well.

The reason i am complaining is that the product is still in their store this minute. They claim not to have it. So in my opinion they try to swindle people out of their money by offloading their unwanted products inside these orders. It's not just bad service it's becoming a scam.

And all possible solutions will result in them never running any risk because they will never lose money on this scam.

[dees]

Original von C-Bear[...] OK, i now have paid 18 euro for a 26 euro dildo.[...]

An idea occurred to me: If it's a 26€ dildo and you've paid 18€ and don't want to pay for return shipment, there's still an option to sell it. It's new and unused, isn't it? Selling it for 18€ should be quite easy if it's of higher value. Maybe 22€ would do it, with some Euros in benefit for your effort. Well known auction platforms or small ads will help.

If you've already used it, decreasing it's value, then it's your fault.

I don't think they "try to swindle people out of their money" by shipping products of higher value then ordered and payed. Sounds like a ridiculous business plan.

[C-Bear]

Well yes it's a scam, because if i want my product i need to re-order it. They get their money in any circumstance. They will never lose money because they will only send out merchandise they wouldn't sell otherwise. Why would you think i will be able to sell a dildo save is unable to sell?


Let me explain how this scam works:

Let's say you run a store which sells dildo's. You buy mutiple kinds in at various prices. Some sell well, others sell terrible.

Let's say you bought 100 XXL dildo's and 100 "riese" dildo's. Riese's are being sold at €18 and XXl at €30. The riese dildo's sell fine, no problem whatsoever. The XXL's however not a single sale. So first thing you do is lower the price from €30 to €24. You sell two XXL's but still have 98 left meanwhile the rieses are selling fast.

Normally when you have products which you can't sell, or are unable to sell it will revert back into the books as a write-off, this means you sold it for €0 (also called toss it in the thrash) This way you will have space for products that will sell.

What, however, if you put a XXL in an order of Riese and keep the riese? You will get the money for the riese but have delivered a XXL. You just sold a XXL for €18. That is €18 better than a write-off. The only problem is that the customer has something different than he had ordered. But that isn't your problem now, is it?

This is what Save express is doing and i have been told by several other dutch abdl's that they have experienced the same thing. The problem grows worse given that save is unable to admit their mistake, doesn't give a reasonable solution. And almost always suddenly lose the ability to speak english.

That's why this is a scam.

[Ginni]

Hej C-Bear,

I can understand, that you feel betrayed.
But I don't understand: what do you expect from wbc?

You wrote, you want advice, but you block every idea or advice?
What do you really want?

cu

[robino]

Sometimes it might take a little longer to take a product out of a web shop. Maybe you talked to somebody from customer service who doesn't have access to the administrative panel of the web shop.

Still, I understand that getting the wrong product and not seeing the problem fixed on their web shop makes you angry. I've had my share of problems with getting the wrong item from webshops, and it's always a huge amount of work that I'd rather do without. It's also emotionally difficult because ones options are pretty limited and we have to trust the other party to not play further tricks on us.

Sadly, there aren't many options. We can try to get our money back by jumping through a few hoops, but other than that one can't really do anything about problems like that. Would I want to go to court over an article that costs <30 Euro? Maybe the law is even on their side (i.e. if it's economically unviable to stick to the special contract that was formed and the fault on their part isn't high enough and if bad intend can't be proven). In the end, I'm not even sure I'd feel satisfied if I won a "war" like that, as it takes so much time and effort that I would rather put into more satisfying things.

There's something else one can do, but you have already done it: Sharing this problem of yours with other people who have a higher chance of stumbling into it, too. Thank you for that.

But please understand that even I, someone who has taken the time to understand the whole scope of the problem you are describing, will continue to order from save. They ship discretly, the stuff I order from them has always been in stock when I wanted it, and the prices are good, especially if I buy enough to qualify for free shipping. I'll probably think twice about ordering sex toys from them now, or shoot them an email asking if an item is really on stock if I plan to buy it.

What you have done until now was probably everything productive there is to do, minus sending back the parcel back to save and getting your money for the item and the return shipping costs. It sucks, but all other alternatives (keeping the item, sueing, etc...) suck even more.

[C-Bear]

I'm not inclined to sue. I haven't reached my full delivery and i paid via paypal so I'm rescinding the payment until they deliver.

lol

an answer from save:

Schicken Sie es doch endlich zurück , was sollen Ihren dummen emails .


Nice costumer service over there. A return label is send to me so i won't have to pay for shipping. Too bad i still don't have my complete order though. But at least i can get some of my money back.

[MuggeDK]

I just gotta agree with robino.. im from denmark my self, but i live with my german mistress/mommy/girlfreind, and she has studyed law.. and as robino says, there arent much more to do that dosent take a hell lot of time and energy.. personally the best thing you done in this case is actually telling people about it, so we think twice about ordering sex toys (personally i buy them in dark passion or botiqe bizarre on reeperbahn, a little expensive but really good quality ).. my personal experiance with saveexpress haset been anything but good.. cheap prices, fast delivery good service, but okey i havent orderd anything els than diapers there but again besides all of the good advice in this threat what you choose to do next is yours t decide

//MuggeDK

[Wolfgang]

you make me angry.
behave like yours is why our scene is so negatively charged.
take the stupid dildo, put it into the package and send it back
you need not even pay postage, so what do you want? a gold rolex?

save has a huge choice, the products are seldom cheaper ....
why?
because the markup is kept low and the volume counts

No one is infallible, where work is done, pass errors
more as offer to solve the failure they cant do

your behave steals time on both sides

many years ago we had a contract with save where 1% of sales from the community are paid for the operation of these community. Precisely because such behavior it has not extended and dissolved.

[tenalover]

I'm not surprised at all - I have had exactly the same kind of trouble with them.

Don't even try to argue with them - the guy who runs the shop seems to suffer from kind some of mental issue.... he simply doesn't get the point, doesn't admit any of their mistakes and blames the client (even if one does speak German).

I tried the well educated way and they even tried to intimidate me - threatening me that they would file legal claims if I made the case public!!!

If you paid with PayPal, just open a case and they will take the wrong item back.
You should also insist for them to send you a prepaid return sticker.

Finally, they even told me they they wouldn't accept any new order from me. I'm glad to order my stuff elsewhere and not having to deal with those unprofessional and offending people any longer.

[teddibär]

Hi C-Bear,

you cry so much about 18 EUR. I guess you have not yet experienced *real* losses. Get it over with! Simply return that stupid thing and book it under 'Learnt for Life'
With your current behaviour you could risk that Save might not accept future orders from you...

[tenalover]

If they don't accept future orders - who cares?!
Personally I prefer to deal with serious sellers....

[C-Bear]

I got a return label. It mentioned with big letters dildo on it. So i can't use it for neutral shipping. I asked for one without the mentioning of the word dildo on it. They are refusing to do so. So i will ship it back with a bill for it sent to save.